yellow burr weed

jenni · Post by **jenni** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:02 pm

hi was just wondering if anbody could tell me if"yellow burr weed" or amsinckia has the same ph raising virtues as pattersons curse.it is in the same family.i hope so because we've got acres of it!!

Ian James · Post by **Ian James** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:48 pm

Never heard of it in this area.

duane · Post by **duane** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:41 pm

Hi Jenni

More commonly known as Saffron thistle in some areas.
Saffron thistle is an annual weed of temperate
southern Australia, occurring in overgrazed
paddocks, poor pastures and neglected areas.
Again, its a great repair plant.

Not sure if it raises pH, but it does improve fertility and again if slashed will add OM and soil C.

Goats apparently luv 'em.

jenni · Post by **jenni** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:37 am

hi there. Its not saffron thistle. It is a hairy broad leaf with a yellow flower. Boragineae. Same as patto.thats why i was wondering

Stringybark · Post by **Stringybark** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:49 am

I was pretty sure that Saffron thistle (Carthamus lanatus) and Yellow burr weed (Amsinckia) are different plants.
Jenni has me thinking about broad hairy leaved plants, such as Pattersons curse, Lambs ear and Yellow burr weed and where I've seen them growing.
I think you might be onto something.

duane · Post by **duane** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:06 pm

Shirley may know something????....sorry for the misinformation.

You may have salvaged yourself Stringybark from WONS nomination. And thanks for the clarification....

Stringybark · Post by **Stringybark** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:45 pm

See Duane, I'm useful if managed properly. Just don't let me get out of hand.

Shirley Henderson · Post by **Shirley Henderson** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:18 am

HI Jenni, I am not familiar with Burrweed. I did a bit of reading on the subject and found the name is Boraginaceae Amsinkia species or "Fiddleneck". They have a deep tap root like thistle and many of those other tough colonising plants on degraded land. Those deep tap roots are great at opening up your soil and aerating it plus allowing water to get in where otherwise it would not. The seeds can be a bother to sheeps wool and some of the species have that toxicity that can be detrimental to animals if eaten in large numbers. Those species have not been confirmed or identified in Australia and no deaths have been recorded in regards to it. Many of the plants differ in appearance so individual species are not identified just the Genus Amsinkia and the Family Boraginaceae. You can slash in Autumn before seed set to improve your fertility and oversew with legumes to outcompete and add fertility in the form of nitrogen to your soil. Also put in what you want and enhance your diversity. The soil must be depleted and compacted to have such a plant in large numbers. If the numbers are not too great then your land is probably on the way to recovery. Shirley

duane · Post by **duane** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:51 pm

Jenni

Cannot find any information regards this plants ability to altering soil pH.

Maybe you could test it yourself.

Take some pH readings where the plant is NOT growing and take some where it is.

There are a number of plants such as PC and Melia that DO raise pH. I am certain there are many others.

These plants are indicators that the soil is ACIDIC:
Plants that Indicate the Soil Might be Acid
Dandelions
Wild Strawberries
Ox Eye Daisies??
Dock
Cinquefoil
Plantain

jenni · Post by **jenni** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:27 pm

aha thankyou! The area it has overtaken is just below the break of slope at the top of our arable country.it got washed out by heavy rain in january so was bare at the autumn break.it is flowering and we have just slashed it. Underneath it is a very good strike of clover and some baby microleana.it is being grazed now but only 1 week. I will do some ph tests and get back to you all. Thanks again

jenni · Post by **jenni** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:19 pm

i tested the ph today and found a fairly significant difference. Where the amsinckia was growing the ph was 5.5-6 and lower down the hill with predominantly clover and rye grass the ph was 5-5.5

jenni · Post by **jenni** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:02 pm

Thought it might be of interest to note that the area slashed is a great glossy green colour better in colour than the rest of the paddock.The clover is doing very well but it is also covered in mustard weed. At about the same intensity as the previous amsinckia! So it is flowering and we are slashing again. I wonder what will come up next.

duane · Post by **duane** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:44 am

Jenni

Remember the critical thing is to let these plants reach maturity.

Many of these plants double their weight every 10 days. That means they increase their biomass by a factor of 100%....the last 10 days of their life cycle is the most critical because that is when you get the greatest increase.

This will rapidly build your biomass, soil carbon and OM content and mulch layer.

What will follow is increased fertility and higher fertility will allow for the succession of grasses to occur.

That is the natural sequence.

jenni · Post by **jenni** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:09 am

just a quick update on this area which was covered in the fiddleneck.we've had some great rain and more on the way apparently.but. now i have CATHEADS! ACRES OF THEM! i don't really think i have much of an option but to spray some.i say this with great dissapointment.our hills are covered in them i don't know what to do about that i won't spray the hills we have in between the catheads ferns, climbing saltbush,red grass, warrego summer grass, microleana,native geranium(?).the catheads are flowering and very healthy and are happily growing where there is plenty of trash/mulch- thats the bit that gets me i thought it needed bare ground.i estimate we have 50+ acres of them.what will be next?

duane · Post by **duane** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:48 am

Jenni

Just remember that Nature does nothing needlessly.

You are farming within an ecosystem.

This system has been badly perturbed in the past and more recently by the rain event.

The plants are telling you something.

Start another case history, with photos and obs...just like you have been doing and we are going to get a CASE HISTORY section put up on the Forum.

If you

now i have CATHEADS! ACRES OF THEM! i don't really think i have much of an option but to spray some.i say this with great dissapointment

you will miss the sequence. It would be ill advised, is my advice.

Agriculture and farming has been about applying inputs to get outputs and this has happened at a great loss to ecosystem function.

Agriculture speaks of trying to be sustainable. Ecology speaks of resilence.

By conducting agriculture we are performing this task within an ecosystem which is trying to restore balance and resilience EVERY time there is a major perturbation.

Sure, you can spray it out. But that will then cause another problem or perturbation that Nature will try and fix and you will get a different set of problems.

Work with Nature and respect her ability to restore balance....as a farmer you will need to put up with the inconvenience for a little while but in the end you will get the desired outcome.

This is just a cycle....run with it, observe and monitor it, and see how the new cycles that follow build on what went before them.

This is the key to understanding Peter's NSF.

Natural Sequence Farming

yellow burr weed

yellow burr weed

Yellow Burr Weed